The GHZ Forum

You know damn well what he meant.
Serious business, and such.

Crazy Penguin wrote:I wonder, if this game turns out to be fantastic, will it be followed up with even more fantastic Sonic games, or will they start coasting it again like they did immediately after the successful Sonic Adventure?

The coasting didn't really come until Heroes. SA2 was an honest shot, but they just over-saturated it with importance for Sonic's tenth anniversary until it collapsed under its own weight.

I'd personally like to think that if they manage to pin down two excellent 3D games, they'll know what they're doing, but then again; I thought the transition from Sonic & Knuckles to Sonic Adventure proved a pretty reliable sequence, losing very little momentum over the course of four years.

Here's another thought. SA2 was the 10th anniversary, this upcoming title is for the 15th, you realize that we've been without a decent canon title longer than the post S&K-era?

I'll never understand how people can hate Heroes more than the horrible unplayable tripe of over 70% of the gameplay in the Sonic Adventure games (oh no my controversial opinion surfaces).

I don't think there's been anything close to a "good" 3D Sonic game so far, but I don't think I enjoyed a single second of SA, everything it did "right" in comparison to the others is completely and utterly ruined by the horrific lack of difficulty and disaster of a camera as far as I'm concerned.

I'll stop now before this really kicks on and I go on for 3000 words on stuff I'm sure you've all already read a thousand times.

James McGeachie wrote:horrific lack of difficulty

Were the 2d games that much harder? Bosses aside, I think there're about 7 places in the entirety of Sonic 2d platformers where I actually died more than once, and 5 of them are from the gamegear games. Making it to the end with 50 rings was often challenging in Sonic 1, CD, and Pocket Adventure, but no more so than getting all the time attack emblems in SA1.

Also, can anyone explain why a high percentage of Europeans prefer Heroes to the Adventure games?

Maybe it was that A-Team Parody commercial.

So I assume everyone else noticed that the article just ripped off the GHZ's timeline and, more blatantly, cameo sections? The screenshots in the latter case are clearly stolen directly from us. NT was telling me the story of how he took the Donkey Kong Country 2 screenshot himself.

It probably is, because Mario and the other characters are in the exact same positions in the pictures.

Are we expecting GamePro to have integrity or something?

DackAttac wrote:

Crazy Penguin wrote:I wonder, if this game turns out to be fantastic, will it be followed up with even more fantastic Sonic games, or will they start coasting it again like they did immediately after the successful Sonic Adventure?

The coasting didn't really come until Heroes. SA2 was an honest shot, but they just over-saturated it with importance for Sonic's tenth anniversary until it collapsed under its own weight.

I have to disagree. SA2 was a decent game, but it wasn't nearly as good as the sequel to Sonic Adventure should have been - it was even a step backwards in many regards.

SA2 wasn't the first sign of trouble though. Sega put so much time and effort into making Sonic cool again with Sonic Adventure, but it wasn't long afterwards that we got Sonic Shuffle. And we've gone over the flaws of the Advance games enough times.

To those of you who know me, this won't come as much of a shock (and I may have already said this before), but I preferred Sonic Adventure 2 over Sonic Adventure. It's mostly subconscious because I can pull either one off the shelf and be happy playing it, but I would assume it's because there's almost thrice the Action Stages and it's increase in speed.

...I have no crappy punchline to that, really. I'll leave that to Baba or something.

So I assume everyone else noticed that the article just ripped off the GHZ's timeline and, more blatantly, cameo sections?

However, try as they might, they cannot ape my mad sex appeal.

I wonder, if this game turns out to be fantastic, will it be followed up with even more fantastic Sonic games, or will they start coasting it again like they did immediately after the successful Sonic Adventure?

Sonic Adventure wasn't successful. The Sonic fan community embraced it, but outside of that fan community, it's generally seen as a broken platformer. Seriously, ask around.

I hope by "The Sonic fan community embraced it" you mean that "The Sonic fan community was split in half about it and even those who liked it admit that it's not even close to being the perfect Sonic game".

Anyone alive who thinks it's even remotely close to perfect should be gassed/shot into the sun/hung, drawn and quartered/some other zany way of dying painfully.

The "Sonic level" design and concept was better than those in SA2.

SegaSonic wrote:The "Sonic level" design and concept was better than those in SA2.

As far as I'm concerned that means as much as saying that the House of the Dead movie was better than Alone in the Dark, or that the first Leprechaun movie was better than the sequels.

You know what I mean,

SA1 levels were more...I dont know.

Now, that was honest.

SA1 levels and atmosphere were more fantasy-like while SA2's skewed more towards realism with a sci-fi like theme.

SA1 was an experimental template as if it was more refined in future games while getting rid of all of the bad without adding new problems they would have been successes. Unfortunately, the following games that were actually made after IMO, never followed though with complete improvements in all areas.

(...) wrote:

I wonder, if this game turns out to be fantastic, will it be followed up with even more fantastic Sonic games, or will they start coasting it again like they did immediately after the successful Sonic Adventure?

Sonic Adventure wasn't successful. The Sonic fan community embraced it, but outside of that fan community, it's generally seen as a broken platformer. Seriously, ask around.

They see all of the 3D Sonic games as broken platformers. They also have been the most vocal of getting a decent 2D Sonic console game that stars only Sonic. It's fun to dream.

Am I the only person who isn't that interested in further 2D Sonic games? If you ask me, the original Mega Drive series more or less explored every possible avenue of that concept, whereas there has yet to be a truly fantastic 3D Sonic game. There's a lot of unfulfilled potential there.

Sonic Adventure, when originally released, was very well received amongst both fans and press as I recall, and sold well also.

The "Sonic Adventure sucked" sentiment didn't seem to pop up until around SA2 onwards. This is probably due to the flaws of the following Sonic games mostly being extrapolations of elements first introduced in Sonic Adventure.

Sonic games are too realistic looking - began with Sonic Adventure. There are too many characters - began with Sonic Adventure. The stages are too linear - began with Sonic Adventure. The controls are fiddly - began with Sonic Adventure. And so on.

It's not that these things were necessarily big problems in Sonic Adventure (though they did leave room for improvement), but in the following games these elements were taken to the extreme.

In the sequels, instead of fixing the things that didn't quite work in SA, they made them into even bigger problems.

So the original Sonic Adventure receives a lot of unfair retroactive contempt.

Popcorn wrote:Am I the only person who isn't that interested in further 2D Sonic games? If you ask me, the original Mega Drive series more or less explored every possible avenue of that concept, whereas there has yet to be a truly fantastic 3D Sonic game. There's a lot of unfulfilled potential there.

I think there's room for one more 2D Sonic game, as long as it truely builds upon where Sonic 3 & Knuckles left off, but I wouldn't want to see it until they've fully realised the potential of 3D Sonic games.

Granted, I have defended the original Sonic Adventure for years and will do so even now - I still think it's as close to a totally successful 3D Sonic game as Sega's ever come. ~Green Gibbon

Nuffsaid.

And thats the game I want the new STH to resemble!



Oh! and Sonic channel now has wallpapers of everyones favorite character! Big!

Popcorn wrote:Am I the only person who isn't that interested in further 2D Sonic games? If you ask me, the original Mega Drive series more or less explored every possible avenue of that concept, whereas there has yet to be a truly fantastic 3D Sonic game. There's a lot of unfulfilled potential there.

No, I agree. Going back to 2D would just be yet another unnecessary step backwards. Sonic either has to become a name synonymous with 3D platformers or he'll slip off the radar into oblivion by 2010. Sad as it is, 2D is essentially dead, and I can guarantee a lack of sales thanks to the ignorance of the mainstream. It's not the fact that Sonic in 3D cannot work, it's just that they haven't figured out HOW to make it work...yet.

I still remain hopeful for Sonic 2006. If they get this one right, they'll get it REALLY right.

Would a 2D or 2.5D console platformer in the vein of the same artstyle as VJ or Okami really further damage Sonic current rep to the older gamers? Sonic's main audience--kids would embrace it because of the Sonic brand. Die hard Sonic fans who hasn't bailed yet would probably embrace it because of the Sonic brand. Their could be a possiblity that former fans who were decrying the 3D games, adore the Genesis games and/or may have somewhat enjoyed the 2D handheld Sonic games might embrace or bring them back to Sonic with a game like that. Especially if Sega actually advertised it as much as they do with their current 3D games.

*shrugs*

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I haven't played much of it, but I'd like to point out Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, a 2D console game that got good reviews and seems to have held the attention of all gamers.