A few late SA2 questions

[aso]

First: Just what happened at the end of the final battle between Sonic and Shadow on the way to the Eclipse Cannon? Okay, so Knuckles and Rouge come to a stalemate. Eggman (even if he wins) feigns defeat so that he can nab the real Emerald. The S&S battle isn't as clearly completed, though. One way or another, Sonic would have to get to the Cannon for the story to actually progress. However, Shadow would never let Sonic live after defeating him. Does this mean Sonic actually defeats Shadow, or do they come to some sort of unseen stalemate?

Second: Just what the hell are Sonic and Shadow saying during their final battle? Specifically, what they say when their health just drops into the red, and when they're totally defeated? The damned loud music makes it impossible to hear.

Third: We all know that when you beat the game with the Hero story, you get a preview for the Dark story. When you beat the Dark story, you get the Last story. If you beat the Dark story first, do you get a preview of the Hero story?

Fourth: How many people here actually like the game?

Fifth: For GG or anyone who actually knows the original Japanese dialogue and all, how well was the game translated into English? Any major inaccuracies?

[Green Gibbon!]

Fourth: How many people here actually like the game?

I understand why most people hate it... and I will agree that it isn't a genuine Sonic experience, but I do kind of like it, kind of. Maybe I just learned to like it after collecting all 180 emblems twice. Or maybe I was willing to forgive a single misstep. Or maybe everything looks better after Sonic Heroes. Whatever the case, it had its moments, and Eggman was in fine form.

For GG or anyone who actually knows the original Japanese dialogue and all

I don't really know Japanese unless I can sit down with a dictionary and struggle over it (like, really struggle), but I don't recall any major inaccuracies. Nothing as drastic as Sonic Battle, anyway.

[Esrever]

If you beat the Dark story first, you DO get a trailer for the hero story, as I recall. As for your first two questions... I don't have a clue, really. As interesting as the plot of SA2 is, the execution was a little... muddled, to say the least.

Sonic Adventure 2 wasn't awful... it just wasn't great either. The shooting and hunting portions just weren't substantive enough to carry an entire two thirds of the game. And as for the Sonic segments... well, I'm just not a big fan of the turn towards the even more linear, twitchy, elevated racetrack level style. SA1 was pretty linear too, but at least it still sort of felt like you were in Sonic-styled levels. SA2 felt more like a platformerized F-Zero. :P

I never got all the emblems, and I never will, because I can't stand Chao raising.

[Spazz]

If you've got the equipment, just download some good chao.

[aso]

I can understand the criticisms, and beyond the shooting sections (controls were tightened up) the running/finding segments of the game were actually worsened from the original. Sonic's levels in SA weren't as frustratingly long and didn't feature quite as many roads/looping highways. Knuckles' levels have been made too big for their own good (beyond Wild Canyon, which is just about the right size) and require you to find the Emeralds in order instead of whatever order you find them in. Yeah, old news, but it really peeves me.

I also wish that I could see how Adventure fields would have worked in a game like SA2. Running around the city before City Escape? Checking around the plateaus of Wild Canyon? Hell, even checking out the 'other' areas of the ARK? You could see all sorts of neat things in the Egg Carrier, but... agh. Stop.

I don't really know Japanese unless I can sit down with a dictionary and struggle over it (like, really struggle), but I don't recall any major inaccuracies. Nothing as drastic as Sonic Battle, anyway.

I've only played the English translation included with the Japanese game. How horrible did they make it?

If you beat the Dark story first, you DO get a trailer for the hero story, as I recall. As for your first two questions... I don't have a clue, really. As interesting as the plot of SA2 is, the execution was a little... muddled, to say the least.

Crap! Now I'll have to play through the Dark story again, just to see the trailer for the Hero story. And, yeah, I'm not expecting anyone to really know the answers to the first two. Most of the chatter throughout the game is impossible to make out, anyhow.

[CE]

I also wish that I could see how Adventure fields would have worked in a game like SA2. Running around the city before City Escape? Checking around the plateaus of Wild Canyon? Hell, even checking out the 'other' areas of the ARK? You could see all sorts of neat things in the Egg Carrier, but... agh. Stop.

Am I the only person who thought the Adventure fields were the WORST THING EVER to be placed in a Sonic game (or any game for that matter)? There was nothing interesting to do in them, except going to the next stage. But that wasn't interesting at all; that was hideously boring and stupid.

I feel similarly about the "puzzles" placed in other action games as well.

Crap! Now I'll have to play through the Dark story again, just to see the trailer for the Hero story. And, yeah, I'm not expecting anyone to really know the answers to the first two. Most of the chatter throughout the game is impossible to make out, anyhow.

Here's what it sounds like to me:
Shadow's intro: "Before this is over, I'll show you the true power of CHAOS CONTROL!!"
Shadow is in red: "You're better than I thought."
Shadow is dead: "Impossible! I am the ultimate life...."

Sonic on the other hand, is impossible to understand except for his dead quote, "Shoot, you beat me." They also both say something at half health, but I couldn't figure out what they were saying.

[aso]

I don't know why, but I really liked the Adventure fields. They added a bit more meaning to the Sonic world. It was also kind of neat to see certain areas that you would have never have been able to see up close any other way (such as the Master Emerald shrine).

That Shadow stuff sounds about right (although his Chaos Control quote, no matter what, always goes: "This is the ULTIMATE....") but for Sonic, this is what I've gotten.

Sonic's Intro: All right, Shadow, time for me to put an end to this!
Sonic is in red: No idea
Sonic's dead: (Something)... I failed...

I've never heard it as 'Shoot, you beat me'. I'll have to give it another listen.

[Light Speed]

I never thought SA2 was that bad. The only real problem I had with it was how it forced you to play through the Hunting and Shooting. I would have anyway, but it didn't really give you a choice. Also the best part of the game was obviously the running levels yet they were the fewest. I thought that was pretty crappy. Other than that it wasn't that bad. Oh and I used to know what they said when the died, but I can't remember anymore. Maybe I'll play through those fights again... maybe.

[Esrever]

I liked the Adventure fields. They sort of helped flesh out Sonic's world and make it feel more like a real place.

[Trog13]

I actually like sonic adventure 2 a lot. The hunting/shooting levels may have sucked, but the sonic and shadow levels were awesome. The later space levels pissed me off, but they weren't bad. Sonic adventure was good, but I don't think any of it was as good as the best levels in adventure 2. But it also didn't have anything as crappy as the worst levels. I would have taken the adventure fields instead of some of those hunting levels.

[Green Gibbon!]

I've only played the English translation included with the Japanese game. How horrible did they make it?

Nothing insanely out-of-whack, there was just some key phrases that were changed and some subtleties that were lost. Check out the Sonic Battle museum page, I've got it all pretty thoroughly documented on there.


I also liked the Adventure Fields except for Egg Carrier, which was just a pain to get around.

[J.C.14]

SA2 is a great game, but I just wish they could consider more.

The Sonic/Shadow Levels felt too linear, Most levels involved Jumping, and running, that's it.

The Tails/Eggman stages were fine

The Knuckles/Rouge stages we're...okay...The stages I hated we're Pumpkin Hill, Meteor Herd, and Aquatic Mine, all other levels we're fine by me.

Why did we need duplicates, They play the same, Tails and EGgman don't differ to much and so on, I wish Amy, Big, and E-102 we're back.

Amy's Style
Linear levels like Sonic's with ZERO chasing you

Big's Style
Huge Water areas, where Froggy swims all over

E-102's Style
Like Tails/Eggman

[smiths32]

Really, I don't see the point of giving different characters different playstyles, I mean from the original Sonic Adventure: Sonic had the best bits- his levels resembled the oldies, and there as the whole speed thing; Tails' levels were way too simple, I felt that it was too easy to beat Sonic; Knuckles levels were also quite simple, as the chaos emeralds were never too far away; Amy had some cool levels, but her adventure was too short; Big's levels were plain crap; E-102 was quite slow and his levels were quite un-sonicy.

Sonic Adventure 2 basically made Knuckles' and Rouge's levels way too big, and somehow made the shooting levels worse. Sonic's levels also felt too samey and unimaginative in design.

Why don't Sonic Team just make everyone go in the running levels but make the characters use their different skills to allow them to go different routes, just like Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

[CE]

Really, I don't see the point of giving different characters different playstyles, I mean from the original Sonic Adventure: Sonic had the best bits- his levels resembled the oldies, and there as the whole speed thing; Tails' levels were way too simple, I felt that it was too easy to beat Sonic; Knuckles levels were also quite simple, as the chaos emeralds were never too far away; Amy had some cool levels, but her adventure was too short; Big's levels were plain crap; E-102 was quite slow and his levels were quite un-sonicy.

There is some merit behind giving the characters different play styles; I just with that they were all somewhat Sonicy. Adventure's Sonic, Tails, and Amy all felt like they were in the same game! Big, while being a great character, just didn't belong.

Sonic Adventure 2 basically made Knuckles' and Rouge's levels way too big, and somehow made the shooting levels worse. Sonic's levels also felt too samey and unimaginative in design.

And this wasn't the case in the 2D Sonics? I remember there being only three styles of levels in the 2D Sonics -- speed, platformy, and bouncy -- with the occasional one off level.
Star Light Zone feels like a harder Green Hill Zone.
Hill Top Zone feels like a over water Chemical Plant Zone.

Oh, and to all you who say that Sonic Adventure 2 is worse than Sonic Adventure, I have one word for you:

Metal
Harbor

[smiths32]

Metal Harbour's two words, and that level was boring.

[CE]

Okay then smart guy, can you name a fun level in Sonic Adventure 2? Oh, and what about that level you liked?

[smiths32]

You really like Sonic Adventure 2, don't you...

None of the levels in Sonic Adventure 2 can come even close to the older levels. Sure, getting on to that rocket within 10 seconds at Metal Harbour makes you a little excited, but I believe that that is Sonic Team's poor way of trying to make the game move quicker (which is just because you will be less eager to waste time). I mean in the older Sonic games you went fast because you could: there were no speed ramps, you just moved quickly when the game let you.

I don't really like the Adventure games much, but lots of people do: they're entitled to their own opinion.

BTW if I HAD to pick a fun level in SA2, then I would say City Escape. And what did I say about a level that I liked?

[big_smile]

I liked the Adventure fields. They sort of helped flesh out Sonic's world and make it feel more like a real place.

I really loved the Adventure fields for the same reasons, but also because they helped to add a greater level of exploration that was partly lacking in the Action Stages. However, aside from the towns-people’s stories, the only rewards for exploring were finding the entrance to a new level or acquiring a new move. As the game dictated when you had to find these, the level of exploration wasn’t to the standard I expected from a Sonic game. They should have hidden more secret objects to find, made more of the shops accessible and added items to buy with money earned from finding treasures in the Action Stages and completing tasks for the towns-people.

Third: We all know that when you beat the game with the Hero story, you get a preview for the Dark story. When you beat the Dark story, you get the Last story. If you beat the Dark story first, do you get a preview of the Hero story?

Yes – the hero preview is also the first time Sonic’s planet is explicitly referred to as ‘the Earth’.

Fourth: How many people here actually like the game?

I found SA2 to be similar to a pineapple. On the surface there are some really spiky design issues that are present in the levels, moves, visual design and story.

The levels lacked the freshness of previous Sonic games - Most of the really showy ideas (such as the truck chase) were reused from SA1 and, unlike the original Adventure game, the extra dimension derived from moving into 3D is never exploited to its fullest potential. Fortunately, the shooting and hunting levels are now full-sized stages, removing the ‘demo’ feel that plagued the levels of the supporting cast in SA1. However, while the size might have improved, the paced has worsened by becoming too slow, which divorces these games from the experience one expects from a Sonic title. This problem is heightened by the fact that the story mode over-indulges on these genres.

The character’s new moves (such as the grinding and improved light speed dash) succeed in increasing the sense of speed and so stay true to the series’ legacy, but as the controls place too many actions onto a single button, unwanted actions are a common occurrence, which not only slows the game down further, but also adds unnecessary frustration.

The visual design is too dark and realistic, which removes the magic and wonderment of pervious games. Many of the locations are over used – any potential a desert level may have of conveying the mystery and awe of ancient Egypt is lost when it is re-used five times.

The story has a strong cinematic feel, but ignores the legends and destiny themes that were a key part of previous games. The presence of many of the characters (such as Amy and Knuckles) feels very forced, as do some of plot climaxes (Shadow’s discovery of Rouge’s identity is particularly bad).

The Chao Garden contains a healthy selection of new ideas, but the vast number of races to complete turns it into a chore, which again does not suit the legacy of the series.

Underneath this spiky surface is a (near) sweet tasting game that is only really accessible once the story mode is completed and the trial mode is fully unlocked. Obtaining an A-Rank on all the levels is really addictive, mainly due to the rush and thrill which comes from achieving a fast time that is essential for a high score. In the shooting levels, there is the added frantic challenge of trying to lock-on to as many targets as possible before the laser sight disappears and this helps to add a little more depth compared to the original Gamma levels. Although it can be occasionally frustrating to get an A-Rank, the prospect of unlocking a 3D version of the Green Hill Zone demands continued play.

Overall, Sonic Adventure 2 starts of as a disappointment but slowly improves. However, although it is very likeable, as it lacks in freshness and originality, it never quite reaches the high standards of previous Sonic games.

Fifth: For GG or anyone who actually knows the original Japanese dialogue and all, how well was the game translated into English? Any major inaccuracies?

Apparently, Rouge never said she was going to give up stealing jewels – she just decided to leave the Master Emerald alone. The characters don’t refer to the planet as Earth either; they just call it ‘the ground’.

^_^

[firemario1001]

SA1>SA2

SA2 was not a very enjoyable game. It was frustrating, glitchy, and the missions were too difficult. The grinding WAS innovated, but it should of been use sparigly. I mean, I could understand grinding down rails by steps, by a whole level composed of floating rails- 2 of them actually, was sickening and uncreative. And those chaos enemies...

SA1 was so much more enjoyable. The plot was more understandable and far less cheesy, the characters were totally different from one another (and Sonic had the biggest story because he's most important), the levels were not totally linear (speed highway had several routs to take), the lesser important characters, like Amy and Big, had small stories, Sonic and Co's personalities were actually tolerable and very similar to the old SegaSonic series, graphics were bright and colorful, the game actually had badniks as the main enemies and the end of levels featured the egg capsule. However, there were glitches in this as well (actually more than SA2) and they hindered what would be actually a very enjoyable game.

[Spazz]

That Shadow stuff sounds about right (although his Chaos Control quote, no matter what, always goes: "This is the ULTIMATE....")

I'm pretty sure he's saying "This is the ultimate power!" It's hard to hear, you just need to listen close enough.

[Brazillian Cara]

I think I'm the only one that liked the WHOLE game. I'm sure I'm not retarded, and you're being way too picky.

[Soundbreaker]

Okay, I know some of the answers so here goes...

1st question: Sonic did defeat Shadow. During the FinalHazard fight, you can see that the cannon is destroyed.

2nd question:
Sonic's intro: All right Shadow, time for me to finish this!
Chaos Control: I will use your CHAOS CONTROL!!!
Third hit: Nice job, Faker!
In red: Urgh! No time to waste, take this!
Defeat: Shoot... I failed...

Shadow's intro: Before this is over, I will show you the true power of CHAOS CONTROL!!!
Chaos Control: This is the ultimate!!!
Third hit: Ouch! That hurts.
In red: Urgh! You are better than I thought...
Defeat: Impossible! I am the ultimate life...

4th question: SA2 is a pretty good game. Many people say bad stuffs about it because it is a disappointing sequel to a great game, Sonic Adventure. Graphic and 2 player mode are amazing. Hard mode and level designs are frustrating though.

[BlazeHedgehog]

The thing is, I enjoyed the Adventure Fields for one reason: Wide-open spaces. It gave me space to run around, to be free. It gave me a field to cut loose in. It's what I had always wanted in 3D Sonic, from day 1: space to breathe in. Not cramped little runways.

I knew that if I wanted to - I could hop in to Speed Highway and get my fix of actual highspeed gameplay, or I could just roam around Station Square/Mystic Ruins. And I was pretty okay with that setup. The two played off each other quite well and gave me a well-rounded, up-front and focused Sonic game with some rough edges.

Sonic Adventure 2 provided me with the inverse of that: cramped spaces, thin highways suspended over bottomless pits, and linear level design. And that was a key flaw: When I wanted a wide-open space, it gave me clausterphobia. When I wanted linearity and direction, it gave me <i>Meteor Herd</i>. It was very counter-intuitive to itself.

Sonic Advance 3 sucked because it was like, "Okay. Here's your Adventure Fields - IN ADDITION to a several full-sized levels with plenty of room to explore." And you just go "What? Screw you, I just wanna get to the next stage." Because that balance is lost: No longer does the Adventure Field provide you with the exploration you wanted, it just seeks to get in your way and waste your time because there was enough exploration in the main levels.

Edit:

Chaos Control: I will use your CHAOS CONTROL!!!

I always thought it was "Now I'll use your move! ...Chaos CONTROL!"

[Popcorn]

I think I'm the only guy who actually liked SA2. It wasn't as good as I was hoping it was going to be, but it was a solid, attractive romp, which is far more than Heroes can claim to be. Only Sonic and Shadow's levels are really great, obviously, but I think the shooting and hunting segments were still far, far better than their insanely hollow and limited SA1 counterparts.

Stylistically, SA2 differed drastically from anything else Sonic’s known before, and that occasionally scared the hell out of me. Sometimes the game’s solid, sunny, American aesthetic felt like the most natural thing in the world-- ie in Sonic’s first and final stages— but in others, it feels awkward and inappropriate, as with that damn kart-racing mini-game.

I loved SA1 to bits, but SA2 is better because I no longer love SA1 to bits.

[CE]

I guess other people do like Sonic Adventure 2. It's good to know that not everyone else has bad taste.

My problem with the Adventure fields is that there was nothing to do in them! DX somewhat improved on that with its hidden missions, but even in DX the adventure fields still felt almost completely empty. If the adventure fields were more like the "At Dawn" part of Radical Highway and less like... they are now, then I think I'd enjoy them.